Comments on: The Liberal Principle http://www.thurible.net/20091017/the-liberal-principle/ The Blog of the Provost of St Mary's Cathedral, Glasgow Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:21:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: giac mcley http://www.thurible.net/20091017/the-liberal-principle/#comment-9238 giac mcley Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:13:56 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/?p=6419#comment-9238 Thanks for pointing out the Moir piece. It seems to have struck y'all as a little off. In the States it would be par for the course, our political discourse hasn't risen above this level in decades. Especially fine was the line about "the happy-ever-after myth of civil union." No one has ever promulgated such a myth, yet when the reader agrees that such a myth is not borne out by the facts, his reason, if any, is stained with the notion that Moir is right about all the rest. The lie bleeds across the truth. I always wonder whether the Moirs of this world convince themselves, or if they're just zealously cynical. Oggi, 21/10/09, printed a pleasing foto of Mr. Gately, said he was found dead in Maiorca. "Gately, 33, was gay and was on vacation with Andrew Cowles, whom he had married." Sposato. No quibble, no condescension, no polemics, no nastiness. Thanks for pointing out the Moir piece. It seems to have struck y’all as a little off. In the States it would be par for the course, our political discourse hasn’t risen above this level in decades. Especially fine was the line about “the happy-ever-after myth of civil union.” No one has ever promulgated such a myth, yet when the reader agrees that such a myth is not borne out by the facts, his reason, if any, is stained with the notion that Moir is right about all the rest. The lie bleeds across the truth. I always wonder whether the Moirs of this world convince themselves, or if they’re just zealously cynical. Oggi, 21/10/09, printed a pleasing foto of Mr. Gately, said he was found dead in Maiorca. “Gately, 33, was gay and was on vacation with Andrew Cowles, whom he had married.” Sposato. No quibble, no condescension, no polemics, no nastiness.

]]> By: fr dougal http://www.thurible.net/20091017/the-liberal-principle/#comment-9180 fr dougal Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:52:51 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/?p=6419#comment-9180 The right to express distasteful opinions is one thing but the right to splatter factually inaccurate opinions all over the papers is another entirely. I complained because the article was ignoring medical investigations and was scurrilous in in its use of innuendo drawn from factually dubious data. It was bad sloppy journalism as well as scurrilous. The right to express distasteful opinions is one thing but the right to splatter factually inaccurate opinions all over the papers is another entirely. I complained because the article was ignoring medical investigations and was scurrilous in in its use of innuendo drawn from factually dubious data. It was bad sloppy journalism as well as scurrilous.

]]> By: Calum http://www.thurible.net/20091017/the-liberal-principle/#comment-9177 Calum Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:15:13 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/?p=6419#comment-9177 It can be easy to get swept into the excitement of those tweeting and blogging without thinking about the arguments intelligently. As you say, it's an equally small step to finding ourselves asking to refuse others' right to freedom of speech. This, however, is not one of those cases. Jan Moir's article was beyond ambiguous in its hatred. The time for tolerance of those being intolerant is well and truly over. It can be easy to get swept into the excitement of those tweeting and blogging without thinking about the arguments intelligently. As you say, it’s an equally small step to finding ourselves asking to refuse others’ right to freedom of speech. This, however, is not one of those cases. Jan Moir’s article was beyond ambiguous in its hatred. The time for tolerance of those being intolerant is well and truly over.

]]> By: Rosemary Hannah http://www.thurible.net/20091017/the-liberal-principle/#comment-9176 Rosemary Hannah Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:21:28 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/?p=6419#comment-9176 The trick is done this way. One takes something which is true, and sandwiches onto it something which is not, thus making refutation harder. Thus: lifestyle. Having a partner is something which can be avoided. [true] Having a partner of one's own sex is bound to involve the kind of excesses which are more generally associated with the Emperor Tiberius/the more lurid kind of pornography [false] It is outrageous to use language in this way, because it both slanders groups of people and devalues human thought and human language. I have no idea which is the greater sin, but both are pretty bad. Aren't I in a good mood? The trick is done this way. One takes something which is true, and sandwiches onto it something which is not, thus making refutation harder. Thus: lifestyle.

Having a partner is something which can be avoided. [true] Having a partner of one’s own sex is bound to involve the kind of excesses which are more generally associated with the Emperor Tiberius/the more lurid kind of pornography [false]

It is outrageous to use language in this way, because it both slanders groups of people and devalues human thought and human language. I have no idea which is the greater sin, but both are pretty bad. Aren’t I in a good mood?

]]> By: kelvin http://www.thurible.net/20091017/the-liberal-principle/#comment-9174 kelvin Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:38:50 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/?p=6419#comment-9174 I see that Colin Coward over on the <a href="http://changingattitude-england.blogspot.com/2009/10/daily-mail-and-stephen-gateley-anglican.html" rel="nofollow">Changing Attitude blog</a> also sees a link between Jan Moir's article and the way bishops behave. In particular, he notes that she shares her "lifestyle" inuendo with the Archbishop of Canterbury. It is on the shaky foundations of Rowan Williams's thought that our Scottish bishops are making policy. I see that Colin Coward over on the Changing Attitude blog also sees a link between Jan Moir’s article and the way bishops behave. In particular, he notes that she shares her “lifestyle” inuendo with the Archbishop of Canterbury. It is on the shaky foundations of Rowan Williams’s thought that our Scottish bishops are making policy.

]]> By: Rosemary Hannah http://www.thurible.net/20091017/the-liberal-principle/#comment-9173 Rosemary Hannah Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:13:17 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/?p=6419#comment-9173 I thought it was outrageous because it was insidious and sly. It started off calmly enough and then slipped into half fact, lies and distortion. Two high profile gay men in permanent relationships have died in totally different circumstances. Sadly, high profile straight men also die - sadly because I don't want any young people at all to die. Somehow this became: 'I told you so all along, they are all unstable and promiscuous.' Only she did not even have the guts to say that straight out. As though plenty of high profile straight stars did not have well publicised relationship disasters. As those of us straight and low profile did not also have our own disasters. There is no place for snide dishonesty. Plain simple criticism might be another thing. I thought it was outrageous because it was insidious and sly. It started off calmly enough and then slipped into half fact, lies and distortion. Two high profile gay men in permanent relationships have died in totally different circumstances. Sadly, high profile straight men also die – sadly because I don’t want any young people at all to die. Somehow this became: ‘I told you so all along, they are all unstable and promiscuous.’ Only she did not even have the guts to say that straight out. As though plenty of high profile straight stars did not have well publicised relationship disasters. As those of us straight and low profile did not also have our own disasters. There is no place for snide dishonesty. Plain simple criticism might be another thing.

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