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	<title>Comments on: The Jury is Out</title>
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	<description>The Blog of the Provost of St Mary&#039;s Cathedral, Glasgow</description>
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		<title>By: Eamonn</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081202/the-jury-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-7682</link>
		<dc:creator>Eamonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>For a different example of conflict between public duty and religious conscience, see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7761315.stm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a different example of conflict between public duty and religious conscience, see <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7761315.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7761315.stm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eamonn</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081202/the-jury-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-7680</link>
		<dc:creator>Eamonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;d be inclined to think that things should be left as they are, and leave it to individual clerics to weigh up their sense of civic responsibility against their immediate duties to their flock (notably, funerals and other services).

Having said that, my own limited experience would suggest that jurors with certain addresses and occupations are very frequently rejected, which wastes everybody&#039;s time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be inclined to think that things should be left as they are, and leave it to individual clerics to weigh up their sense of civic responsibility against their immediate duties to their flock (notably, funerals and other services).</p>
<p>Having said that, my own limited experience would suggest that jurors with certain addresses and occupations are very frequently rejected, which wastes everybody&#8217;s time.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081202/the-jury-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-7679</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kelvin, to an old-fashioned Episcopalian the Scotland Act 1998 has no validity because it hasn&#039;t received the assent of King Francis. Indeed, no valid Acts have been passed since King James VII&#039;s time, which is rather nice - and you yourself, of course, as a clergyman of the de jure Established Church are entitled to St Mungo&#039;s Cathedral and all its ample ancient revenues. You can buy us a drink from the proceeds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kelvin, to an old-fashioned Episcopalian the Scotland Act 1998 has no validity because it hasn&#8217;t received the assent of King Francis. Indeed, no valid Acts have been passed since King James VII&#8217;s time, which is rather nice &#8211; and you yourself, of course, as a clergyman of the de jure Established Church are entitled to St Mungo&#8217;s Cathedral and all its ample ancient revenues. You can buy us a drink from the proceeds.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081202/the-jury-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-7677</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for the clarification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification.</p>
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		<title>By: kelvin</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081202/the-jury-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-7675</link>
		<dc:creator>kelvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 09:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Unless the Scotland Act 1998 has been amended or repealed whilst I&#039;ve been off sick, I think the proper legal name is still the Scottish Executive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless the Scotland Act 1998 has been amended or repealed whilst I&#8217;ve been off sick, I think the proper legal name is still the Scottish Executive.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081202/the-jury-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-7674</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&gt; The quotes around “government” indicate that I think that Scottish Executive was a more appropriate term. &lt;

And this from a priest of a church which spent almost the entire eighteenth century not recognising the Union? 

Oh for those happy days, when the Scottish Episcopal Church was the SNP at prayer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; The quotes around “government” indicate that I think that Scottish Executive was a more appropriate term. &lt;</p>
<p>And this from a priest of a church which spent almost the entire eighteenth century not recognising the Union? </p>
<p>Oh for those happy days, when the Scottish Episcopal Church was the SNP at prayer!</p>
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		<title>By: Erp</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081202/the-jury-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-7670</link>
		<dc:creator>Erp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 01:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t think you can just turn up for a funeral (though I have heard of horror stories about ministers who didn&#039;t know the name or praised a deceased atheist as godfearing) and I certainly wouldn&#039;t recommend trying to do a full time job and jury duty.  However I believe some clergy (not all) have a bit more leeway working outside of standard working (and jury) hours for stuff that must be done by that particular cleric in person and not by a substitute.    In contrast let us say to a construction worker who has to work set hours which usually coincide with jury hours.  I suspect family might be willing for a weekend funeral and evening meetings if it means they could get their favorite priest just as they might be willing to wait a day or two if he was in hospital for surgery or on vacation.   Of course I could be wrong.

Now whether I would want a cleric on the jury is another matter.    Are you the sinners in the hands of an angry God type or somewhat more irenic (I believe you are the latter)?   Am I the victim or the person in the dock?

Also how exactly does the law define &#039;clergy&#039;?  Does it include people who are ordained but don&#039;t currently have a position such as provost?  Does it include non-Christian clergy?  

p.s. Don&#039;t forget to treat that cold carefully.  My last bout of flu was in Scotland and it laid me flat out for several days and weak for several weeks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think you can just turn up for a funeral (though I have heard of horror stories about ministers who didn&#8217;t know the name or praised a deceased atheist as godfearing) and I certainly wouldn&#8217;t recommend trying to do a full time job and jury duty.  However I believe some clergy (not all) have a bit more leeway working outside of standard working (and jury) hours for stuff that must be done by that particular cleric in person and not by a substitute.    In contrast let us say to a construction worker who has to work set hours which usually coincide with jury hours.  I suspect family might be willing for a weekend funeral and evening meetings if it means they could get their favorite priest just as they might be willing to wait a day or two if he was in hospital for surgery or on vacation.   Of course I could be wrong.</p>
<p>Now whether I would want a cleric on the jury is another matter.    Are you the sinners in the hands of an angry God type or somewhat more irenic (I believe you are the latter)?   Am I the victim or the person in the dock?</p>
<p>Also how exactly does the law define &#8216;clergy&#8217;?  Does it include people who are ordained but don&#8217;t currently have a position such as provost?  Does it include non-Christian clergy?  </p>
<p>p.s. Don&#8217;t forget to treat that cold carefully.  My last bout of flu was in Scotland and it laid me flat out for several days and weak for several weeks.</p>
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		<title>By: kelvin</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081202/the-jury-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-7668</link>
		<dc:creator>kelvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m entertained that Erp seems to think that funerals (or indeed Sunday services) are events that clergy could just turn up to and take.

Perhaps my original question should have been, would you be happy for a relative&#039;s funeral to be taken at a weekend with very limited contact with the person conducting the service because the clergy person had been on jury service. 

Scottish juries do sometimes get sent to a hotel, but I don&#039;t think this is terribly common.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m entertained that Erp seems to think that funerals (or indeed Sunday services) are events that clergy could just turn up to and take.</p>
<p>Perhaps my original question should have been, would you be happy for a relative&#8217;s funeral to be taken at a weekend with very limited contact with the person conducting the service because the clergy person had been on jury service. </p>
<p>Scottish juries do sometimes get sent to a hotel, but I don&#8217;t think this is terribly common.</p>
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		<title>By: Erp</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081202/the-jury-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-7667</link>
		<dc:creator>Erp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>However there are a lot of key workers so should there be an automatic opt-out for all of them (New York State had so many automatic opt-outs that it was difficult to find jurors)?   Hardship opt-out on a case by case basis might be best (some people might be able to serve on a short trial but not a long one).   Are Scottish juries sequestered or would a cleric on a jury still be able to do Sunday services and weekend funerals/weddings?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However there are a lot of key workers so should there be an automatic opt-out for all of them (New York State had so many automatic opt-outs that it was difficult to find jurors)?   Hardship opt-out on a case by case basis might be best (some people might be able to serve on a short trial but not a long one).   Are Scottish juries sequestered or would a cleric on a jury still be able to do Sunday services and weekend funerals/weddings?</p>
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		<title>By: kelvin</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081202/the-jury-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-7666</link>
		<dc:creator>kelvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The quotes around &quot;government&quot; indicate that I think that Scottish Executive was a more appropriate term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quotes around &#8220;government&#8221; indicate that I think that Scottish Executive was a more appropriate term.</p>
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