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	<title>Comments on: The Mothers</title>
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	<description>The Blog of the Provost of St Mary&#039;s Cathedral, Glasgow</description>
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		<title>By: Listening. Talking. Discussing. LGBT</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081011/the-mothers/#comment-7407</link>
		<dc:creator>Listening. Talking. Discussing. LGBT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ann G</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081011/the-mothers/#comment-7089</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 07:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thurible.net/?p=5565#comment-7089</guid>
		<description>As a member of the MU, I too would welcome clarification.  
Thanks for raising the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a member of the MU, I too would welcome clarification.<br />
Thanks for raising the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: kelvin</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081011/the-mothers/#comment-7079</link>
		<dc:creator>kelvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thurible.net/?p=5565#comment-7079</guid>
		<description>Thanks Ann G for your comment.

I&#039;m minded to put up some suggestions of resources for such families in the next few days. I&#039;ve no doubt that the video in question would be out of date now anyway, so it is not just about restoring that particular video.

I think it is worth remembering at this point that my original point was about why clergy might not feel any enthusiasm for an MU branch in their congregation.

I take your point that lots of people belong to organizations that they don&#039;t 100% agree with.

However, I wouldn&#039;t join or remain a member of an organization which was openly racist. For me homophobia is just as unacceptable. Whether church folk like it or not, that is becoming a prevailing view in society.

I&#039;ve a feeling that anyone advocating the international MU policy on human sexuality (which is based on Lambeth 1.10 which has never been accepted in Scotland) would have a high risk of being deemed unsuitable to adopt or foster a child by a local authority these days. 

That is a pretty serious situation for any organization dedicated to family life to get itself into. 

Whether or not the MU in Scotland takes the same policy or not is unclear to me. If it does it is a scandal and the MU here has not only abandonned families with gay kids but also any presumption to occupy the moral high ground. If it does not and choses to follow our own bishops in Scotland, the MU deserves praise for standing up and doing the right thing at the right time.

I wonder whether anyone feels like telling me whether the MU follows the Scottish Episopal Churh&#039;s bishops&#039; policy on sexuality (ie the one from March 2005) or the MU Worldwide policy based on Lambeth 1.10.

I can&#039;t see how one could hold to both views.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ann G for your comment.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m minded to put up some suggestions of resources for such families in the next few days. I&#8217;ve no doubt that the video in question would be out of date now anyway, so it is not just about restoring that particular video.</p>
<p>I think it is worth remembering at this point that my original point was about why clergy might not feel any enthusiasm for an MU branch in their congregation.</p>
<p>I take your point that lots of people belong to organizations that they don&#8217;t 100% agree with.</p>
<p>However, I wouldn&#8217;t join or remain a member of an organization which was openly racist. For me homophobia is just as unacceptable. Whether church folk like it or not, that is becoming a prevailing view in society.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve a feeling that anyone advocating the international MU policy on human sexuality (which is based on Lambeth 1.10 which has never been accepted in Scotland) would have a high risk of being deemed unsuitable to adopt or foster a child by a local authority these days. </p>
<p>That is a pretty serious situation for any organization dedicated to family life to get itself into. </p>
<p>Whether or not the MU in Scotland takes the same policy or not is unclear to me. If it does it is a scandal and the MU here has not only abandonned families with gay kids but also any presumption to occupy the moral high ground. If it does not and choses to follow our own bishops in Scotland, the MU deserves praise for standing up and doing the right thing at the right time.</p>
<p>I wonder whether anyone feels like telling me whether the MU follows the Scottish Episopal Churh&#8217;s bishops&#8217; policy on sexuality (ie the one from March 2005) or the MU Worldwide policy based on Lambeth 1.10.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t see how one could hold to both views.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann G</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081011/the-mothers/#comment-7078</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thurible.net/?p=5565#comment-7078</guid>
		<description>I am a member of an MU branch.   Like most of the institutions I belong to I don&#039;t support 100% of what the MU stands for.     However, as it encourages members to walk along besides, families where is violence, abuse or separation and to be with women in the developing world during pregnancy and childbirth, I&#039;ll support the MU.  In the absence of the MU video can those with expertise pull together to produce one for every church with or without an MU branch.   Families with children who want to come out deserve all our support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a member of an MU branch.   Like most of the institutions I belong to I don&#8217;t support 100% of what the MU stands for.     However, as it encourages members to walk along besides, families where is violence, abuse or separation and to be with women in the developing world during pregnancy and childbirth, I&#8217;ll support the MU.  In the absence of the MU video can those with expertise pull together to produce one for every church with or without an MU branch.   Families with children who want to come out deserve all our support.</p>
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		<title>By: Marriage again</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081011/the-mothers/#comment-7067</link>
		<dc:creator>Marriage again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thurible.net/?p=5565#comment-7067</guid>
		<description>[...]  Recent Comments Robin on The Madness of Strangersryan on The Madness of Strangerskelvin on The MothersKelvin on Sermon - 5 October 2008Kimberly on The Mothers Most Commented [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Recent Comments Robin on The Madness of Strangersryan on The Madness of Strangerskelvin on The MothersKelvin on Sermon &#8211; 5 October 2008Kimberly on The Mothers Most Commented [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kelvin</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081011/the-mothers/#comment-7063</link>
		<dc:creator>kelvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 10:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you Kimberly. I think you know well enough that I could no more pray such a prayer as fly.

In fairness, I think it is worth posting a prayer written by the founder of the MU, Mary Sumner which is worth praying:

All this day, O Lord,
let me touch as many lives as possible for thee;
and every life I touch, do thou by thy spirit quicken,
whether through the word I speak,
the prayer I breathe,
or the life I live.

Amen.

The local Mothers&#039; Union has produced an excellent book of prayers which I saw on Saturday for the first time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Kimberly. I think you know well enough that I could no more pray such a prayer as fly.</p>
<p>In fairness, I think it is worth posting a prayer written by the founder of the MU, Mary Sumner which is worth praying:</p>
<p>All this day, O Lord,<br />
let me touch as many lives as possible for thee;<br />
and every life I touch, do thou by thy spirit quicken,<br />
whether through the word I speak,<br />
the prayer I breathe,<br />
or the life I live.</p>
<p>Amen.</p>
<p>The local Mothers&#8217; Union has produced an excellent book of prayers which I saw on Saturday for the first time.</p>
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		<title>By: Kimberly</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081011/the-mothers/#comment-7060</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimberly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thurible.net/?p=5565#comment-7060</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kelvin, my only regret  is that your principles may deprive you of the chance of ever having to lead a local MU through their old beloved prayer.  It was a very surreal moment when I was asked to lead off with it a few years back (though it seems to be less popular on the web than in local branches).</p>
<p>The Mothers’  Union Prayer 1974</p>
<p>Almighty God, our heavenly Father, who gave marriage to be a source of blessing to mankind, we thank you for the joys of family life. Pour out upon us your Holy Spirit, that we may truly love and serve you. Bless all who are married and every parent and child. May we know your presence and peace in our homes; fill them with your love and use them for your glory. Bless the members of the Mothers&#8217; Union throughout the world; unite us in prayer and worship, in love and service, that, strengthened by your grace, we may seek to do your will; through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen</p>
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		<title>By: Kelvin</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081011/the-mothers/#comment-7056</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thurible.net/?p=5565#comment-7056</guid>
		<description>Trish, thank you for your further comment. It makes me sad though.

I just don&#039;t accept that there is any reason why a family with a gay child in Scotland should have less support from the MU because of how difficult things are for anyone in Nigeria.

I can&#039;t imagine that the MU would lessen its stance on trafficking of women or its campaigning to end violence against women because of anything said or done by anyone in Nigeria.

However, when it is vulnerable gay kids or parents without a clue how to support them, the MU seems to have taken the the view that it was OK to walk on the other side of the road.

I don&#039;t think that is right, I don&#039;t think that is ethical and although it has become clearer to me as the day has gone on that the MU doesn&#039;t like that being brought out into the open, I think that it needs to be pointed out and clearly named.

What was once a more inclusive institution on LGBT issues is no longer so. I regret that greatly and have no regrets in saying so publicly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trish, thank you for your further comment. It makes me sad though.</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t accept that there is any reason why a family with a gay child in Scotland should have less support from the MU because of how difficult things are for anyone in Nigeria.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine that the MU would lessen its stance on trafficking of women or its campaigning to end violence against women because of anything said or done by anyone in Nigeria.</p>
<p>However, when it is vulnerable gay kids or parents without a clue how to support them, the MU seems to have taken the the view that it was OK to walk on the other side of the road.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that is right, I don&#8217;t think that is ethical and although it has become clearer to me as the day has gone on that the MU doesn&#8217;t like that being brought out into the open, I think that it needs to be pointed out and clearly named.</p>
<p>What was once a more inclusive institution on LGBT issues is no longer so. I regret that greatly and have no regrets in saying so publicly.</p>
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		<title>By: Trish Heywood</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081011/the-mothers/#comment-7053</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish Heywood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thurible.net/?p=5565#comment-7053</guid>
		<description>Although I do not actively remember that conversation with you Kelvin you are right in that I did feel unhappy that we were not able to be more supportive of gay and lesbian friends and their families as an organisation. However, as I travelled around the world in my job as MU President I met others with differing views. This didn&#039;t change my mind but it did help me to understand why, for instance, MU members in the north of Nigeria living in a mainly Muslim culture thought differently. Trish x</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I do not actively remember that conversation with you Kelvin you are right in that I did feel unhappy that we were not able to be more supportive of gay and lesbian friends and their families as an organisation. However, as I travelled around the world in my job as MU President I met others with differing views. This didn&#8217;t change my mind but it did help me to understand why, for instance, MU members in the north of Nigeria living in a mainly Muslim culture thought differently. Trish x</p>
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		<title>By: kelvin</title>
		<link>http://www.thurible.net/20081011/the-mothers/#comment-7050</link>
		<dc:creator>kelvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks Sheila - I look forward to reading it.

It is clear from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thurible.net/20081013/here-we-go-again/#comment-7048&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John Penman&#039;s comment&lt;/a&gt; on another post that I am not the only person to have observed the MU moving away from its previous inclusive stance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sheila &#8211; I look forward to reading it.</p>
<p>It is clear from <a href="http://www.thurible.net/20081013/here-we-go-again/#comment-7048" rel="nofollow">John Penman&#8217;s comment</a> on another post that I am not the only person to have observed the MU moving away from its previous inclusive stance.</p>
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