Comments on: Sermon 10 August 2008

By: Zebadee

Zebadee — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 15:41:37 +0000

Kelvin,

You are beginning to sound and write like Peter Marshall. There can be no greater accolade that one could give. I might just add that you are now up to the Nigel Robb standard of preaching.

By: Paul

Paul — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:08:54 +0000

Peter O – sorry I’m commenting on something you said a while ago. Just caught this thread and want to ask you a question…
You said:
>It is the actual historical event which makes the spiritual
>experience real

Which historical events are you referring to? The four gospels of the NT each have slightly different records of events. The Gospel of John differs considerably from the other three gospels in its historical record even to the point of the cruxifiction taking place on a different day than that of the other gospels. Therefore can you tell me, did the cruxifiction happen on a Thursday or a Friday? or, to be less flippant, did it happen before or after Passover? it’s just that I’d like to know.

By: morag

morag — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:00:33 +0000

I agree Rosemary,”his truth does not rest in getting facts right” and I have met people from whom the light of Christ shines out ,ordinary everyday unassuming people going about God’s work.I was trying to say that in trying to understand God’s nature Desc. said that it was in not in God’s nature to be a deceiver.I believe in the Christian God I have faith in God I cannot prove He exists but I innately believes He does therefore for me he does

By: Rosemary

Rosemary — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:39:42 +0000

It depends what you think the nature of scriptural inspiration is, doesn’t it? A general inspiration – a desire set in the appropriate heart to record, or to teach, or whatever, or a dictation.

It is as with people. I believe that the saints are those inspired by God – I look at great Christians and see the light of God shining in their lives … but when I see they are actually human I don’t say: ‘Oh, well, then – they were sometimes mistaken, or angry, and if God could allow THEM to be close to him, he is just supporting a lie!’

This is a flawed world, and it is our faith that God works through it, and transforms it.

There is only one Word of God, and his truth does not rest in getting facts right.

By: morag

morag — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:56:24 +0000

we come to it now what is truth.?can we just have mathematical truths or proofs or is there room for philosophical proofs.I’m sure you’re all more familiar than me than Descartes first proof on the nature of God.The Bible I believe does contain absolute truths and as Robin says on occasions is metaphorically and symbollically true.However we are humans trying to understand what is a Supernatural being and the Bible stories and events are presented in very human terms for us to try and understand the nature of God and how He wants to have a relationship with us.Sometimes I think because we are from God but fully yet “in tune” with Him we don’t quite know the lingo yet so misunderstand the message.I think Kelvin is right you need to ask” is it true for you”
Sorry to interrupt your debate guys with my rambling thoughts p.s I know I’ve probably got the Descarte thing wrong – a cup of tea beckons I feel

By: Robin

Robin — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:17:20 +0000

Peter, do you believe that anything which is not a statement of fact is a lie? I’m not a creationist, but I certainly wouldn’t call the first chapter of Genesis a lie! At very least, I would say it was metaphorically and symbolically true even if it was not a factual narrative like the notes of a laboratory experiment.

By: Peter O

Peter O — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:44:54 +0000

Tim,

It’s still a lie then isn’t it? You’re left arguing that God allowed untruths to exist in Scripture, and I’m not sure that’s an orthodox view.

By: Tim

Tim — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:22:24 +0000

`If in fact the lame didn�t walk and the blind didn�t see, what is the purpose of such a passage if not to deceive about what Jesus actually did?’

Bifurcation fallacy alert. An easy answer: it could be a plant on the author’s part to have Jesus appear to fulfill some OT description of the coming Messiah, maybe to the increased comfort of disciples after AD70. That leaves one thinking: maybe Jesus did perform some miracles, but *the literality of report of any one such is unimportant*. Certainly the alternative to literality is not deceit, unless you choose to see it as such!

By: Peter O

Peter O — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:45:18 +0000

East for the creed, westward facing celebration – I believe Kelvin and I might actually agree on something!!!

By: kelvin

kelvin — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:11:33 +0000

>everyone facing east

Yes. That’s because I travelled in Egypt just before being ordained.

I’m in favour of westward facing celebration (ie the priest and people facing one another) but not in favour of abandoning the idea of facing East for the creed.

East is where the Sun comes up every morning. It is the direction from which we expect Christ’s return.

We turn. (ie make a metanoia) We turn physically.