Comments on: The Plague of Bad Typography http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/ The Blog of the Provost of St Mary's Cathedral, Glasgow Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:21:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Morning Prayer, anyone? | What's in Kelvin's Head http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-7630 Morning Prayer, anyone? | What's in Kelvin's Head Mon, 01 Dec 2008 11:36:18 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-7630 [...] the post I made about liturgical typography? It still gets plenty of readers. Even though it was a bit of a rant, it did spur me on to produce [...] [...] the post I made about liturgical typography? It still gets plenty of readers. Even though it was a bit of a rant, it did spur me on to produce [...]

]]> By: Kennedy http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4721 Kennedy Tue, 06 Nov 2007 15:57:13 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4721 I see that Imagine on BBC1 tonight (6Nov) has a film about the typeface Helvetica. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/imagine/article/helvetica.shtml Kennedy I see that Imagine on BBC1 tonight (6Nov) has a film about the typeface Helvetica.

See http://www.bbc.co.uk/imagine/article/helvetica.shtml

Kennedy

]]> By: Andy http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4095 Andy Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:42:29 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4095 Entirely agree with Kelvin I am afraid The problem is very widespread and to do with clerical staff not realising that computers are not typewriters - this is not anyone's fault but those that employ them not training them correctly. In the NHS this is standard - how many forms have i seen done laid out with space bars. Indeed the new UK Gold Guide to tell us how to train junior doctors is laid out entirely with tabs so if you pluck text to put on a slide you are showered with unwanted gaps. And the people that produced it are funded in the millions. However in terms of the SEC surely we should be ensuring that clear and attractive and editable format is available for the core liturgical texts. Diversity awareness demands that we cater for those less able to read English due to poor sight or language including large print (or in for one person in St Ms giant print). Kelvin's editing session wasnt needed: it should have been done properly in the first place and probably would have taken less time overall. For the less-well 'churched' and less literate multiple books are a real turnoff; the only loss is not being able to browse and marvel at the westminster confessions or the hymns we never dare sing if the sermon is dull which of course never happens at St M's. As for the aside about Mac's = anyone using a Mac would be using styles, wouldnt they?? Entirely agree with Kelvin I am afraid
The problem is very widespread and to do with clerical staff not realising that computers are not typewriters – this is not anyone’s fault but those that employ them not training them correctly. In the NHS this is standard – how many forms have i seen done laid out with space bars. Indeed the new UK Gold Guide to tell us how to train junior doctors is laid out entirely with tabs so if you pluck text to put on a slide you are showered with unwanted gaps. And the people that produced it are funded in the millions.
However in terms of the SEC surely we should be ensuring that clear and attractive and editable format is available for the core liturgical texts. Diversity awareness demands that we cater for those less able to read English due to poor sight or language including large print (or in for one person in St Ms giant print).
Kelvin’s editing session wasnt needed: it should have been done properly in the first place and probably would have taken less time overall.
For the less-well ‘churched’ and less literate multiple books are a real turnoff; the only loss is not being able to browse and marvel at the westminster confessions or the hymns we never dare sing if the sermon is dull which of course never happens at St M’s.
As for the aside about Mac’s = anyone using a Mac would be using styles, wouldnt they??

]]> By: Mike G http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4086 Mike G Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:58:53 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4086 Well, as a regular GadgetVicar reader and self-confessed technophile (AND a Presbyterian - how bad a confession is this?!?), I have to say scrap the booklets and get a digital projector. Spend some real money to get a sympathetic installation of a screen or screens that can be tidied away. Stop people having to find their way round pieces of paper or books, and put each bit up when you need it. However, if you're not going down that road, keep printing the sheets! Occasionally one of our Presbyterian sheep wander. I'd much rather they found a new home with you guys than no home at all (it's no loss what a friend gains). But they will be completely lost with multitudes of books and flicking back and forwards for collects of the day etc. Explain the kneeling to them as well!! Mike Well, as a regular GadgetVicar reader and self-confessed technophile (AND a Presbyterian – how bad a confession is this?!?), I have to say scrap the booklets and get a digital projector. Spend some real money to get a sympathetic installation of a screen or screens that can be tidied away. Stop people having to find their way round pieces of paper or books, and put each bit up when you need it.
However, if you’re not going down that road, keep printing the sheets! Occasionally one of our Presbyterian sheep wander. I’d much rather they found a new home with you guys than no home at all (it’s no loss what a friend gains). But they will be completely lost with multitudes of books and flicking back and forwards for collects of the day etc. Explain the kneeling to them as well!!

Mike

]]> By: saturday night « wonderful exchange http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4085 saturday night « wonderful exchange Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:40:34 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4085 [...] has been much talk about service booklets and church publishing generally over at Kelvin’s blog.So here is today’s crop for your [...] [...] has been much talk about service booklets and church publishing generally over at Kelvin’s blog.So here is today’s crop for your [...]

]]> By: Kimberly http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4084 Kimberly Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:27:36 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4084 I think Chris is referring to the 16 or so home communicants spread out over Cowal who I simply cannot manage to visit every month (none of whom would be out swimming). Which is why I'm in the process of selecting and training lay people to help. But these things take time. One of the perpetual challenges is choosing between serving the needs of the existing community and trying to build a future. We have moved a long way from fonts -- but it is still a question of styles and priorities. I think Chris is referring to the 16 or so home communicants spread out over Cowal who I simply cannot manage to visit every month (none of whom would be out swimming). Which is why I’m in the process of selecting and training lay people to help. But these things take time.

One of the perpetual challenges is choosing between serving the needs of the existing community and trying to build a future.

We have moved a long way from fonts — but it is still a question of styles and priorities.

]]> By: kelvin http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4083 kelvin Sat, 28 Jul 2007 18:28:51 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4083 It might be argued within the mainstream Christian tradition, that taking the sacrament to the sick is a task more suitable for delegation to someone else than the planning and preparation of worship for the wider community. Anyway, taking communion to the sick is changing. These days the sick are more likely to be out shopping than gagging for the sacrament at home. I once took communion to someone who was supposed to be shut-in at home only to find that no-one would answer the door. On checking with a carer or social worker or someone that she was OK, I learned that she had gone swimming. It might be argued within the mainstream Christian tradition, that taking the sacrament to the sick is a task more suitable for delegation to someone else than the planning and preparation of worship for the wider community.

Anyway, taking communion to the sick is changing. These days the sick are more likely to be out shopping than gagging for the sacrament at home.

I once took communion to someone who was supposed to be shut-in at home only to find that no-one would answer the door. On checking with a carer or social worker or someone that she was OK, I learned that she had gone swimming.

]]> By: kelvin http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4082 kelvin Sat, 28 Jul 2007 18:23:58 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4082 Well, it took about three and a half hours, but most of that was designing the styles and having a hissy fit. Formatting text when you have the styles done is fairly easy and quite quick. You do a basic template, then for each day, just change the psalm, the benedictus antiphons and the collect and Bob's your auntie, as they say. Perhaps I should do another week and time myself. Well, it took about three and a half hours, but most of that was designing the styles and having a hissy fit. Formatting text when you have the styles done is fairly easy and quite quick.

You do a basic template, then for each day, just change the psalm, the benedictus antiphons and the collect and Bob’s your auntie, as they say.

Perhaps I should do another week and time myself.

]]> By: chris http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4081 chris Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:58:31 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4081 Sorry - back again. Your version of Morning Prayer is lovely and yes, the book drives me nuts 'cos I don't use it often enough to feel at home in it. But how long did that take you? Is this the end of the book as we know it, Jim? Sorry – back again. Your version of Morning Prayer is lovely and yes, the book drives me nuts ‘cos I don’t use it often enough to feel at home in it. But how long did that take you? Is this the end of the book as we know it, Jim?

]]> By: chris http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4080 chris Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:54:41 +0000 http://www.thurible.net/20070727/the-plague-of-bad-typography/#comment-4080 Whether we/you like it or not, there is a sizeable number of people who want the priest to bring them the sacrament, to name but one. This, I imagine, takes a lot of time for a priest - especially one with more than one charge and a large area to cover. That's the thing that comes into my head right now. I know what you're getting at, but knowing how much time layout can take if you're a fussy soul I think that personally I'd have given up thinking about worship and be thinking about widows and orphans, typographically speaking. But I'm not a priest and don't really know how your day pans out, so could be talking nonsense. :-( Whether we/you like it or not, there is a sizeable number of people who want the priest to bring them the sacrament, to name but one. This, I imagine, takes a lot of time for a priest – especially one with more than one charge and a large area to cover. That’s the thing that comes into my head right now.

I know what you’re getting at, but knowing how much time layout can take if you’re a fussy soul I think that personally I’d have given up thinking about worship and be thinking about widows and orphans, typographically speaking. But I’m not a priest and don’t really know how your day pans out, so could be talking nonsense. :-(

]]>